I think that there are a couple of extremely serious basic problems that are all but ignored in in Minnesota state government. I'd like to talk about them a little bit. They're ignored by the legislature their ignored clearly by the Press live even been ignored by the citizens legal actually fundamental today to that part of government that most people see most often. The let me also let me stress at this point step aside for a second stress that there are qualifications to everything. I'm about to say there are many many excellent people in state government I-5 and absolutely astounding number of them in the three and a half years. I've been here and in government in the years before that a large number of them are sitting right in front of me today. They work hard. They're intelligent. They perform extremely well. There are others who are more like Daniel Moynihan described as un staff during his trouble. They're they're decent people are totally unprepared for their work. beep beep I don't think it's an overstatement to say that two of the basic support systems and state government the Personnel Department in the administration department. Simply do not work. They just don't work. I don't have time to go into various anecdotes that would prove this. Although I made my made notes to myself on a few but I but I do want to pick up one from a previous administration, which will I think me an interesting anecdote and I'd like to say that I think Clarence Harris was making very real improvements in the in the Personnel department and had very many very large number of good ideas. But I think that were suffering from from the reforms that and they were reforms and good ones that that were installed and Harold stassen this date the the tools that personnel has to rate and select people are simply inadequate to do the job. They don't work everybody in state government who is has any authority to hire knows they don't work. They haven't worked at least since I've been there. It is a truism of state government that if you want to have good people if you maintain High Personnel standards such as we do in the state planning agency, you must get around the Personnel system not use it that is not to hire cronies. It is to hire good people with Mac or phds or experience in a field who can deliver for the state. I think that what we need to do and I think that were suffering from 20 years of this kind of performance. I think what we have to do some how is it as a minimum unclassified the managers the so-called managers and state government is about 500 people and some a few of them are and We have to be prepared to return them if they are not competent managers to their highest level their highest civil service level. I don't think they should be fired and thrown out in the street many of them are very good. People are just aren't good managers. It doesn't do any good to replace a bunch of Commissioners who are one tenth of 1% of the of the employees and expect anything to happen different. But just as an example of what goes on and I'm I want to tell you about a memo that I came across somewhere underneath the rug in my agency. Which guy was dated July seven 1970s for middle management type in one of the central. Administrative Departments of state government to one David durenberger executive secretary to governor levander. And the memo says some months ago you and several others there decided that reorganization was important. This has to do with Manpower services. If anything is to happen. It is important to get off of dead center and set up a meeting. Got it. This is I say July 7th attached to it is an indignant note from David's Burger to the commissioner from whence that memo came saying. Name since January 27th 1976 months ago. This whole project has been sitting on dead center right in the middle of your shop. I set up a meeting here for June 3 just to get your people off their ass and it was canceled by the inability of key people other than the governor's staff to attend. Well the head of that department served for many years in state government and the gentleman who wrote the memo is still there. I don't want to get into as I said into details about those two Central departments except to Simply observe that things by and large which are necessary for the government to function house there and they don't work it goes from printing to do to is D to the to the motor pool operation etcetera. I would note that Mr. Gough and his committee a while ago found at the Publications division of the department administration Services the state by being 40% above market and in what is Prince, I'd also note that recommended about 8 months ago that if it does not and I believe the governor agree that if it does not substantially lower its prices by 12:30 178. Then the Publications division should be abolished. It also found it just is another example that the length of time needed to requisition requisition printing from outside vendors. If you're not going to do it themselves is just as ungodly long as it was in 1972 when the leap report said it was too long. I should be corrected. When good people in my agency work hard for 6 months to beat a deadline in producer report and then it takes 3 months to get it printed. They sometimes lose heart. Briefly some of the online agencies. I have very little knowledge of some I know quite a bit about others. Generally again. I want to repeat their very many good people. They work hard to get a lot done by and large. I think there's far too much chauvinism. There's an inability to buy Department. There's an inability to look at the larger picture sometimes beyond the department sometimes Beyond Adele Givens subdivision are or piece of that department. There's a possessiveness about programs that and in some cases that I think is sad and then I even found it a little bit of that and in my agency one time and inability to an inability to say look, maybe if we don't like it this way, but this is what the legislature said. Those are the guys who got elected are the bosses we do what they say. We do it. There's too much at we do what we want to do and they won't get elected next year and will still be here and let it roll right on we have one of the things that has vexed me most and some of the people in the private sector I think is delays on on a number of natural resource in a number of natural resource area is on things like he is has which effect the PCA. I know I got any real progress and programs that signs of years ago to the DNR, but I guess I don't want to get into the specifics of that either the third major thing. I won't get into details just don't have time. But which is going to continue on with nobody pays any attention to it. It's going to get worse is the administrative procedures act with the Advent of the office of hearing examiner by we have a genuine reform which I support which I think any of the of the of the objective people and in state government support strongly in principle. It is intended to supply an independent hearing officer to preside over a number of contested case Hearing in a number of different areas. as a replacement for the old practice under which a commissioner assigned a deputy and then they had a hearing and IT department do what it wanted to anyway, cuz his deputies said they should do whatever it is is Department wanted to do it is a genuine attempt to reform a bad situation, but it is for a number of reasons and in a number of situations not all of them some respect a step backward one result is that and it's a process that works. I think reasonably. Well, if you're dealing with things like Bank Charters where there is or there are attorneys and there was a record to be made and it's almost as if you're in court and the the evidence is entered in and it is it is a pseudo court case, but it doesn't work. In a number of other areas where it wanted what should we've been associated with which is for example environmental impact statements for the Environmental Quality board sits in public. If it is not a commissioner sitting in his office making a decision on a bank Charter sits in public with 400 people watching it we have for example back in the office I and I'm not kidding a 6 inch high stack of hearing record during preside over by you by the office of hearing examiner on a petition to do any is on a very small housing project out west of the Twin Cities. Now that should get about 1/2 hours discussion and it should be turned down but we have it. It's going to cost the state $15,000 and it's costing people just hours and hours of time for a Ford for no good reason. So basically it seems to me that what goes on in Personnel what goes on in administration doesn't go on and must be reformed and we got to take a look at that at that chapter 15 and see if we can't keep the good and somehow make it a cord with the real world in terms of getting the business of state government done. Let me try to tell you what I think are the some of the ingredients that help produce this kind of a situation. First of all, I turn to. to my basic field if the media is reporting there was a lack of time capacity and inclination to study or long enough to fully understand and soda sub Subterranean level of state government to write about it to portray it in a way that shows what it's doing and not doing just let me give you one example, I mentioned the golf report that said the Publications division should be Exterminated if it hadn't produced the savings by by December 31st of last year that has not to my knowledge Allah. I was out of town for a day or two been followed up. I can guarantee you if that was a legislative auditor is reporting even though there wasn't anything in it were that damn they would have been 15 reporters on up at the Capitol on knocking on the doors on December 31st asking what's going to happen to that report. Nobody following up. Nobody remembered it so nobody cares. It's not it's not a romantic subject whether it takes 3 months to do Printing and it cost 40% more not. There's also a problem of a rotating assignments. I had a Young person from a Twin Cities Newspaper reproach me after new QB meeting recently and say what isn't he is assigned to it from the Suburban beat and she had the biggest idea what was going on and you can expect her to there are very few Capital regulars. Who who who know what's going on with the with or about most Department? And I mentioned this before the related Factor isn't is this some of the basic stuff isn't isn't really very sexy. You know, I have noticed as as Fundamental I guess I would say a group such as the Citizens League which is in has been over the years very interested in pretty fundamental things. I haven't noticed. You straining at the bit on most of the things I'm I have mentioned either. This is just not a verdict pay out there and it fell out from a medium point of view or from a from a from a Governor's point of view for that matter probably. there's another whole set of things that are that I called the system that 10 to 2 with it. It just tends to not lend itself to Improvement. Because of these kind of internal factors in his innocence, so there's no real rewards for efficient. Skillful service. The only the only one is that whoever your supervisor is, maybe he's knows you're doing a good job. There's no premium put on Management in state government. There is a public nature of the of the of the whole the whole government. People can't always say what they think or do what they think they should do when they do they usually get get get clobbered when I mentioned there that I thought about a year ago and testimony that we should unclassified about 500 managers two days later. We had an editorial in the Saint Paul Pioneer Press saying it Vanderpool was promoting the spoils system in and didn't know he was talking about. Well, if you had a child Rider had looked into the situation and had the vaguest idea what he was talking about. I could respect that. But of course he didn't and to assume that that you you have to depart me retiring if you simply have non-merit the Motions is of course the illogical and hand them. Not apropos any of them? 1 things that surprised me most is the legislature's inability to really know or I understand what What goes on in the executive branch? I'm not putting down the legislature. They've got their own job. It's just that they don't they do their thing and I don't really have an appreciation. For either how good or Messi or or difficult it is within the executive branch down on the ball of the state government. In some cases a few legislators are are very knowledgeable about a given agency or given program or given cluster of programs in the area. But by and large, they really don't have much of an idea about the executive branch It Off. There's almost no executive oversight of agency performance. The agencies are responsible to everyone and to no one in many respects. I noticed that a we have a new Senator David ruin from Aiken who said that the other day. He was just elected said that he's going to Call trim all the fat possible out of all state spending and he believes a good place to start with me to stay planning agency while I thought that was interesting since I don't think you'll probably be on the one on the committee to all the fat out of state spending. But I think if you were it would be well if he wait for at least 2 weeks till I find out what all the agencies were beaten before I decided which one you like to cut the fat on it. There is a I mention that because there is to some extent a tendency on the part of some legislators to make irresponsible statements or take irresponsible positions. At least then we'll be Rock receives point of view because of course they're interested in votes. That's that's the good old American way. That is something that that you have to consider when you think about the morale and and and the performance of people in the state department to Another another one of the parts of the system, I think and in the end the last one is the is the budget itself. There's really very little room for creativity. The way the budget is handled and I guess the way it must be handled. You know, what what are you going to do for 2 years? What a let-down and Don't leave any freedom. No no room for creativity. There's no room for girls no room for marginal opportunity. So maybe all of this is sound a little gloomy, but I think that as I said in the beginning, we have a a good system and it can be made to work better what I would Would propose that it be done in the next three years if I had anything to do with it is is I would hope that mr. Clean would continue thrust of making what we have work. We have enough we have to make it work. We don't need any Brave New programs and laws. I don't say this for any political reason at all. Perfect. It sounded that note in his inaugural and repeated it and I think it's absolutely apropos all the times. I hope it'll be looked at night in the narrow sense of waste or how many typewriters do we have but the quality of government the quality that people the qualities of leadership and the quality of the performance. I don't think it's how many typewriters we all in but whether the type is type fast and whether what they're typing is worth a damn. It's important. I hope we can research we can do some reform on those basic service agencies. I think we should put some time limits on the periods in which natural resource agencies have to act on permits. I don't think they should go on for 4 years or 6 months. If they don't have to I would like to develop more program oversight by program committees in the legislature itself. Not the Appropriations committees time. I put a high premium on leadership in top positions talked about during the campaign about cronyism and versus career employees. Mostly nonsense, I think we need to Broad result-oriented people in top positions. I think we've had a number of them in over the past few years. I doubt that. There's another state that has as many people as many good people heading departments is it have been active in Minnesota last few years has Jerry Christensen and Ed. There's water and Ken Shane and Jim solemn Jim Harrington Bill Walker John milhoan plans Harris, they are around and outstanding group of people and I hope that will continue. I think we need to look a little bit out of state during the last few years. It's also become common knowledge at least among the few reporters will keep rewriting it that the problem is that somebody went out of state Tire somebody if we think we have all the talent and brains in the state of Minnesota, and we can continually pull people Frank's here, right we're making a bad mistake after his speech Peter Vanderpool was asked about the major accomplishments of the state planning agency under his leadership the state government to my knowledge in in in the country. And I think we've done them we've done one and we are doing another one quite well, they are the the copper nickel study in the man Minneapolis Saint Paul and other Municipal physical studies. I'm proud of the part. I've had in the bringing good people into government or back into government or etcetera people like John millihelen and Barbara Kruger men and Allen Temple. Some other people that you may not know that we fired and brought in from Washington or other places and in my own agency. I think we've done some excellent work in D9 floggers shop on education and Health Department of Education and the legislature considerably in that store. And while some of my environmental friends won't agree with me. I think we've done a pretty good job of trying to keep make some sense out of the out of the ER is process and not let it run away with this government. Another question are asked Vanderpool what it would require to improve Management in Minnesota state agencies it first of all, you have to have a governor who is somewhat interested in that subject. I think I won't work if the administration that is interested in it. Secondly if you have a good commissioners I want to manage well, and most of the good ones do then if they have that freedom. I think they can they can do it. It's going to be a slow process move back to the highest level of competence some of those people who are frozen where they are. And went and it's got to be done somewhat you have to organize. I haven't thought it through a death organize it very well and very clearly because the first thing that would happen if you just would have went and did it is you get 15 people running to their favorite reporters or TV broadcasters. You can get 15 to stories that are half baked and wrong about some me how that somebody's being pushed aside because of politics are honest Grandma worked in the other department or whatever they come up with. Some of that has happened in the last few years one criticism of the Minnesota state planning agency has been that it sometimes duplicate work of other state departments such as the Department of Transportation and that a set of Statewide goals should be formulated to reduce unnecessary duplication between agency if I think there's very little duplication. Maybe the critics don't know what's going on. In this case. For example, we don't have any Highway related planning. We have to deal t10t was formed. I think it has to be in those departments. I think functional planning cannot be centralized and that's not what if they finding agency can do well or should do each department must do if maybe several kinds of planning all on its own. I don't think that's a role for the state planning agency. Unless you want to make it to really haven't headed by the governor and give it about a thousand people which is Ludacris in my opinion. And I don't think that's the way to go at all. I don't think that's possible. I've seen I've seen it over the years whether it's at the Metropolitan level or whether it's whether it's at the state level and they're either so you might need to get some details if they already be meaningful that they never get rid of never get done while they're so broad that they don't mean anything. It kind of if you're good to go to heaven. Finally vanderpol was asked about major issues facing State planners this coming year. blocking of them various energy projects for various reasons by relatives relatively small groups that we're seeing that with a pipeline now if that continues and if state government doesn't act in the face of a fair amount of criticism I must admit I think a relatively small group of people. We're going to have problems in a 10 years or more or fewer with with oil gas and electricity. I think that's fairly obvious. One of the one of the things we've been talking about this for a few years and getting closer and closer is and the Citizens League thought about it many years ago. I know is it's very clear that the same thing is about to happen in colleges has happened in Forest Elementary and second and then secondary schools and we have far too many small on you can on the colleges in the state of Minnesota and some of my to be closed. We got to do far more work on the borders with the with closing either one in Minnesota and or One in Wisconsin for example, and and and putting together to go up and down the border is there such I think that guess the verdict is not really in on weather. Quite small junior colleges are a lot more expensive because there's a lot of different factors and essentially by the planning agency doesn't really prove that but it's very clear that we're going to have a speaking to a Citizens League meeting earlier this week.