Well, the political candidates of the season are very busy these days. We are pleased to have her three of them at least in our Studios congressional candidates from Minnesota and for the next 59 minutes, we'll be talking with them. And of course the people who are nearly as busy is the congressional candidates are the reporters trying to follow them and the builders trying to keep up with all of the information put out on the races of the various candidates will devote to the next 28 minutes or so to the first district Congressional race in Southeastern, Minnesota. And our host for that discussion with the two candidates is k l SE Teri Teri. Thank you Dan the first congressional district includes 11 counties in the Southeastern part of the state. It's such as from the Metropolitan Twin Cities in the north taking in Washington and most of Dakota County to the Iowa border in the South. This year's race in the first district is particularly interesting because it may be the dfl chance to and Republican dominance Republicans have held the first district seat sense8.C93 and for the past 20 years independent Republican Congressman Al quie has represented the district in Washington. But of course this year the seat is open since we is running for governor, the two candidates vying to succeed him are independent Republican Arlen hird all of West Saint Paul and DSLR Gerry Sikorski of Stillwater during the next half hour listeners will have a chance to question both of these candidates on the issues and the Basic Ground rules for the program are as follows. Each candidate will get two minutes to make an introductory statement and then after about 5 or 10 minutes will take questions from listeners. Then at the end of the half hour. Each candidate will get two minutes to make concluding remarks. Let's just begin alphabetically starting with you. Mr. For an introductory statement want to salute the public radio for making this opportunity available to watch the candidates and I trust it will be informative to your listeners. And certainly I welcomed questions that they might have her concerns of what you share for us with us.My Name is Oliver. I am a candidate for this office in the Southeast corner of Minnesota and I seek this office in the basis of experience as a farmer as a state legislature where I served for 8 years a member of the house I was 4 years Minnesota Secretary of State and then three years is a member of the Public Service Commission We've used the slogan throughout this contest at Bergdorf. It's a district and I bases on these experiences that include living in the country and let me know for the last eight years and Suburban Dakota County West Saint Paul and also a philosophical fitting of a district which involves being one who is a fiscal conservative and yet I think over these years has demonstrated a social concern for people and it was translated that into a legislative an administrative action as we traveled around the district. We've heard many many issues. Come forth people are concerned and properly so about conditions in agriculture education healthcare jobs Healthcare. I married a different subject but the issue that's intensified with concern as time has gone on has been a concern over the economy. We have a government that spins and waste to money. We have taxes that are too high. We have a concern over inflation, which is the cruelest tax of all especially for the elderly and this is emerges as a central You and I would count it a high honor to go to Washington to represent the people of the district and certainly try to deal with this very difficult problem getting inflation under control. I think the way to start frankly is with the main cause of it and I see that is deficit spending on the part of the federal government and I see that is an issue that the people in this district and I think the people in the country are expecting the Congress to attack think my 2 minutes is a butt up and should not be glad to respond to questions. They come in. Thank you very much. Thank you. Go ahead and thank you, Terry and Sikorski. I was born and raised in World Minnesota work my way through high school and college as an orderly in a nursing home as a laborer in the sewage treatment plant. I work for young people as chairman of the coalition to lower the voting age. I work for senior citizens as chairman of the governor's Council on Aging legislative Committee in the Minnesota state senate. I was elected a freshman caucus leader and chairman of the wall. Can County legislative delegation my attendance record in my record for successful legislation are the best in the Senate? I know as we proceed with this discussion this noon the differences between Terry Sikorsky my opponent in the areas of taxes and inflation Farm energy human rights and open government will become clear receipt. I believe in sizable tax cuts for middle-income families my opponents proposal favors the wealthy, I believe in matching tax cuts with an end to deficit spending. I'm concerned with the development of inefficient and dangerous nuclear power. My opponent does not I'm concerned with the fact that over half of America's farm land is owned by absentee landowners. My opponent has yet to comment. I support extension of the Equal Rights Amendment. My opponent does not my wretched legislative record is one of support for the open appointments disclosure in an open legislative process. My opponent has voted to keep the legislative process closed and Secret in 1978 in the fur. District I'm the only candidate was legislative experience from the first district. Currently. I represent a State Senate District which reflects that special half bourbon half girl mixed that's found in the first district. I'm running for congress to put my proven record of hard work legislative Effectiveness and concern for people to work for the people Southeastern. Minnesota is their Congressman. Okay? Thank you. First I'd like to address a question to both of the candidates. Maybe Mister Earl. You can take it first you both said that if elected you'll push for large federal tax cuts. How do you plan to do this? And what specific programs do you think are expendable? I think we have to move toward a balanced federal budget and I'm proposing tax cuts Kanter Terry to what my phone says it would have the greatest impact on the middle Americans because this is where the well Summer Country comes from the for going to deal with it. Realistically. This is where we have to deal. These are the people that need the relief and I think there's a fundamental question. Somebody's going to spend the money in society that we want the government to spend it for us or do we want to have people business and individuals the right in the latitude to spend their own money by having to come down the ladder side, but I think they're significant ways where we can also cut because I think it's unrealistic to say we'll just have a text without having a spending cut the first place to attack. It is in the area of government waste and mismanagement experts tell us at 5 to 10% could be cut from nearly every agency in we're talking about your billions of dollars with no reduction and services to people I propose to do that via a strict congressional oversight by other means of a sunset type of legislation which implies that every agency would have to pee. Cataclean review that only its existence but the scope of its operation. I think we would see very significant savings are then I think we have to move into specific areas and make the Second Step which is even tougher and that's picking our priorities better than we have in the past during the course of the campaign. I've talked about two areas with some people look at is sacrosanct Agriculture and defense. I think we must have a strong defense posture, but I think we can cut the buildings. We spend there by requiring our allies shoulder a greater share of the burden and frankly eliminating the cost overruns in the pork barrel legislation that goes on in this area and Agriculture and is a farmers window operated a family farm have a real concern for healthy agriculture. I think it's important to a healthy economy, but here to I think we can achieve fair prices for Farmers with a combination of government involvement. But the real stress in a very aggressive distribution marketing policy around the world instead of the hundred percent subsidies with some people Advocate that would cost billions of dollars. I think would be harmful to American aggregates. My plan includes a 50 billion dollar tax cut for Middle income Americans over a three-year time for your time span the same time matching that was a hundred billion dollars in in in spending cuts. So that the end of the same time. We'll have sizable tax cut for Middle income tax payers and and for business investment in will have elimination of the federal deficit contrary to the espousals of my opponent concerned with who's going to spend the money and who's going to get tax cuts his version of kamprath takes money from middle income tax bears and redistribute the wealth is currently the federal income tax structure is unfair for Middle income tax payers. These taxpayers received two thirds of the income that are that's generated in our country yet. They pay 84% of income taxes the wealthy receive one-third of the income to pay only 1/6 of the income taxes. He's going to take that structure that's unfair and aggravated by Across the Ford cuts of 30 to 33% his own figures show that the family of four and then $20,000 in income will receive a tax cut of $703 the same family of four earning $100,000 in income will receive a tax cut a $13,628. Although they receive five times as much income the receiving 19 times as much as in a tax cut on top of that camp Roth will not will not only hurt middle-income families. It was so impoverished people on fixed income from the inflation that it will cause that no family no income taxpayer under $35,000 a year with 10% inflation is going to be better off than they are right now my plan $50,000 for middle-income taxpayers. We can cut federal budget across-the-board without with between 5 and 10% without endangering Services. We can apply Sunset legislation. Not only do I spoke as follows this concept in 1978, but I work for it in the state legislature. We can impose zero based budgeting greater legislative oversight elimination of cost overruns in the military budget putting the Civil Service reforms to work that have been recently approved you just utilization of modern management techniques and increase stimulus of the economy ready to begin taking questions from our listeners Twin Cities area listeners can call us at 221-1550. Again, that's two to 11550 and listeners outside the Twin Cities the living with in Minnesota call us toll-free at 1 800-652-9700. That's one 800-652-9700. And please keep your questions for you so that we can take as many questions as possible. And before we go ahead taking questions from listeners, I have one more question. I'd like to ask what is your position on the use of nuclear power to meet our energy needs? Mr. I think we should continue on as a nation is most nations in the world are doing with the responsible use of nuclear power is widely used in Minnesota. I think we have to be very concerned about safeguards as far as nuclear accidents with the disposal of nuclear waste and there's something we should proceed with if I had my druthers in this whole energy, I think we should really put her emphasis the weather is in the use of renewable energy sources the Sun the wind the tides geothermal energy. We can make alcohol from grains and make alcohol and if we would put the the stress into this area that we've done in other technological areas. I think it would be better off for all of us. We could reduce our consumption from work conservation and forestall the construction of expensive plants with these beans Clear or fossil fuel plants in that is the stress that I would like to see the government in research and development into the private sector to use and utilize better these renewable energy sources, but I support the moratorium on construction of new nuclear power plants until we've devised feasible and and safe means of disposing of the radioactive waste from from these generating plants if wishes were reality of we could we could begin now to construct these plans put the fact is we have no technologically feasible means of disposing of these wastes and we're playing with future Americans and when when these concrete storage facility start to crumble in future years and we have and if we have no way of storing of these waste we're going to be sorry. It's it's wrong and I've gone through a personal experience as a senator from Washington County in trying to locate a non-nuclear but yet has Just waste disposal site in attempted by the Metropolitan Waste Control Commission in my district. I know firsthand the problems people have with accepting the site until we have a safe way of disposing of nuclear waste we should have moratorium a new plant construction my energy program emphasizes conservation. We consume twice as much energy as industrialized societies. Western Europe is American six times as much as non-americans and half the energy we consume we waste we have to have a fair pricing system for that reason. I've opposed deregulation of natural gas which would cost $90 to American consumers and only give us 3% increase in natural gas sources. I've called for a system of a new development in the Sun the wind agricultural products in in human waste and finally I've supported d r a d concentration of the Energy System currently the energy monopolies oil to gas control oil and gas see all Controlling interest of coal, and she'll they own over 50% of nuclear power and they've recently purchased a supply of copper which is important in the production of solar energy and they have a total Monopoly and research and development. This isn't healthy. Okay, thank you. We do have listeners waiting several on the line. So I will take her first car. Go ahead. Please run the air County and I have just heard a rumor that disturbs me greatly. Do you in fact have a criminal record? And could you clarify this for me? Please? Direct Nolan's campaign in 1972 when he ran for congress in the 6th District. I was disturbed by the type of vandalism that was going on the type of disregard for four laws going home in the 24 hours before the that election discovered that the opponents have placed on the right of way on public property in violation of Law lawn signs that there is an I remove those that was a mistake in the end. I admit that mistake and I regret it. Okay, thank you. We have another caller. Go ahead please you're on their the development of a socialistic medicine. I would like comments from the two candidates and how they would see it as a profession. Maybe I can start off with that the first I think you're dressing at 2 to both of us here. I'm not in favor of the bills that are pending in the Congress for a nationalized health insurance or so-called Kennedy Bill and some others because I think that they would be a move toward socialized medicine. I think they would remove the options in these people in this country that most people have come to expect and I think appreciate in healthcare. I think it would be a move toward the nationalization that only of the insurance industry's at the deal with health care, but also at the medical profession itself, and I don't think we should move in this direction. This isn't to say that we should not recognize and I'm sure as a student of the health-care you're well aware of this dealing with the catastrophic accidents and illnesses that come to I guess most families eventually and here I said we should deal with the program trying to keep people well rather than making them well stretching good nutrition certainly for elderly people for The Young and the guests for all of us. I think there's a lot of things we can do is just decided to try to deliver. Sound Health Care at affordable prices, but I don't look at the programs pending in Congress as the proper way to go. This is Gerry Sikorski as a member of the health welfare Corrections Committee in the state senate than as a member of The Joint house senate subcommittee on Health Care Cost Containment in in a special senate committee on nutrition and as a former orderly in the nursing home. I've had some some background in this area to put in the proper context 90% of our health has nothing to do with Doctor's Hospital's Nurses are pharmacist that has to do with good nutrition physical fitness and what our parents gave us in terms of physical structure and job stress these types of things. I believe in a brace is a national goal the right Americans to have access to good affordable healthcare not on the basis of wealth put on the basis of need. I do not support the current proposal for national health insurance because I'm I'm afraid that it will do nothing. But Spyro the cost already high cost of Medical Care without providing the the the healthcare Delivery Systems that are necessary that there are some things The Government Can Do currently 10% of our gross national product is spent on medical care. What we need to do is get involved in new systems new delivery system such as health maintenance organizations close panels Home Health, Care utilization of non-doctor health professionals such as nurses and other paraprofessionals weekend provide incentives for a good preventive care. I sat on the governor's Council on Aging and workbook nutrition programs, which are highly useful in preventing a serious illness and disease good physical fitness programs and I think we can on the national level adopt what we've done in Minnesota and that's a good catastrophic health insurance. Program that provides the government to come in and assist people before they're forced to spend down lose the economic viability of the household unit maybe divorce maybe lose their home or the personal property. So as to qualify for medical assistant before that happens come in and assistant on a on a shared basis with this usually one-time catastrophic Health cost. Okay, thank you. We got several colors waiting. Let's continue. Go ahead please the candidates are listening. I would like to know from what year years. These This Record was taken from Well, I presume you're referring to the fact that we've made statements that the homeowners and senior citizens have two things in common 1 my opponent raise taxes and and to I've cut taxes recited boats and taken in the in the late sixties in the legislature my opponent for a voted against to freeze and senior citizen property taxes revolted against a homeowner's property tax reduction. Yes, when he was in The Ledges that's when he was in the legislature. He voted against tax credits for renters he voted for the sales tax stuff that was imposed in the late sixties and voted against the referendum on the sales tax just last year and this session pass session of the legislature. I was co-author of of 105 million dollars in tax relief which went to pensioners the handicap for in 77. I supported homeowner's property tax reduction, which total 65 million dollars. I co-authored and in this last session a bill that eliminated the sales tax and home heating fuel tonight and included 47 million dollars in tax cuts for individual income tax payers in tax cuts for Homemakers and Guardsmen and business men and women. Mr. Respond. Yes, I think that the lady's question was what years were talking about. The Jerry's been in the legislature the past two years. I was there from 1962 to 1970 and I think the record need to be made straight because of the main thrust of the bill that Jerry talks. I was a tax reform Act of 1967 was to remove the personal property tax from the homeowner for household goods from the farmer farmer's Livestock in from the merchant from his inventory. And the whole thrust of that was try to give reasonable tax relief. He talks about some Amendments of her put on in the closing hours of the session after these bills have been studied 4 hours. He's well aware that these were the type of amendments had some sometimes come at that juncture. For example about the referendum. He knows well as a lawyer that there's no provision in Minnesota for a referendum, maybe the legislature or put it in next session. They haven't done it yet. Obviously, it wasn't in effect in 1967. So I think that they'd be the record needs to be made straight and that my background. In the legislature, even though it was pointed out. This was about 10 years ago was one of concern for people that were being very unfairly tank because it's personal property tax. The sale tax has been pretty well accepted in Minnesota as a reasonable one his party raised it by Appliance in the early 1970s. Obviously, he could have repealed it last time if you wanted to thank the truth of the matter is that it was it was aimed at removing a replacement tax to remove the personal property tax which for many people elderly and others was the most regressive tax if we had and I think that we should maintain that system. The fact is Terry. This is Gerry Sikorski again is that these were votes there recorded votes and you can't run away from your legislative record the reform my phone and talks about made some changes, but it delivered to a considerable amount of tax relief for big businesses Executives of some of these big businesses are not contributing to my phone. Campaign it also placed heavy sales taxes on on farmers in the form of taxes on farm machinery and parts. Today is Minneapolis Tribune endorse darling. I know they say, mr. Sikorsky that you are the candidate of startling contradictions that you are the champion of liberal legislation. And now you are trying to portray yourself as a conservative. What are your comments on that? And also is it true you voted a pay increase for yourself and you mr. All voted against a pay raise for yourself. the I see Ireland's got his collars in early today got all the lines early. The fact of the matter is on the on the question of physical responsibility. I've I've Define that or fiscal conservatives. I've Define that as a concern for three things eliminating government waste it helps. No one that helps. No human being or human life to waste money on Define it as opposing deficit spending and I've defined it as a as a returnee money's the people in the form of tax cuts. We've already gone over that but on the first two I've done more than talk just about eliminating government waste I've done more than just talk about Sunset legislation. I work for in the state senate on top of that. I I I authored the major legislation that restricts the independent Consulting contracts with your purchase to the tune of 44 million dollars a year in the state. I'm balanced budget one candidate for congress in the first district has voted for deficit spending. That's my opponent. I've never voted for a death. Budget I never will I've never voted for a deficit budget. He's voted for a deficit budget that ended up in a hundred million dollars and instead of responding to that that deficit just pasted over into the next budget year over the last 2 years while I was in the legislature the state budget increased annually at the average 11% in the last two years. He was in the state legislature that same state budget increased in the tuna 31% per year on the issue of a pay increase I voted for pay increase but I've never benefited from that pay increase my phone it received a $10,000 per year pay increase and he's not returned to any of the benefits you receive from that the legislature that legislation received bipartisan support and I authored legislation that was taken into that bill that puts per diem and salary up-front in the form of celery and I think that's where it should be if you have time for one more, Morning, the Tribune and several others which raises the questions about the credibility of my opponent in this whole new relationship with being fiscally responsible because it is they pointed out and this was her observation. They've looked at both our records. They talked to both of us. I assume because I know they talked to me and I think they've been rather perceptive and I think other people as well Jerry talks about the soundry bill, in fact he voted for a bill and I'd only for himself if he's in the legislature next time but for 201 other legislators that raises their salary 120% in Two Steps From 8400 to 18005 or $600. I don't think that's a good example of a fiscal conservatism or responsibility face with the area in which we live. He mentioned that I had to as a benefit of that pay increase and true as the public service Commissioner of this salary along with most State officials was adjusted upward. However, there's a rather startling distinction there because I resign from that job and May 23rd of this year to campaign full-time my opponent whoever continues to receive his full salary as a In spite of the long days that he and I are both putting in on the campaign. So I think that the perception of the Tribune editors was rather accurate. I mean, I'm far away from Houston County and it's just the currency. I have a question for you. I've been very disturbed lately because you say that you've been going for the reduction of taxes and if that's the case why then did you support the 1977 Omnibus tax bill, which I have read get at Orioles on that says it is going to increase taxes in Minnesota about a hundred houses doesn't come from editorials but comes from my Republican opponents in the in his caucus analysis, which evidently came from a Ouija board because of the fact of the matter is that tax 77 Omnibus tax bill which receive total bipartisan support. I think there are very few if any votes against it when it went past. I will actually reduce taxes the tune of 167 million dollars. Mr. Mike, Mike Quick, It would be as we've seen taxes go up and reference is made of the time that I served in the legislation. I admit inflation has had an impact that we've seen the cost of state government to go from 1 billion to 6 billion dollars. Jerry talked about the deficit. He knows is a lawyer that we it's against the state constitution the law to have a deficit budget admittedly. Send Bill probably were not paid in the same fiscal year and mentally we've seen the heavily bonding which is another way of doing the same thing. The truth of the matter is is the cost of government go up taxes go up and we should realize those of us who she could get into his office if the government is one source of income and that's when the taxpayer and his expenditures go up taxes go up and we better be able to realize and admit that Thank you. Mr. We're running really short of time. So I have to turn right now to concluding remarks. Mr. Sikorsky. Why don't you go first opportunity? We've conducted a campaign that's been positive and and reaching into issues and discussing issues. I'm sorry that my opponent has decided in the last a few days of this election to take desperate actions because he knows that our campaign reaching out to people on a one-to-one basis as had tremendous impact and he's receiving the signals back from people that they're in a losing situation. They're resorting to Watergate tactics. And and it's it's disheartening to see if because until this point we've been able to maintain the high-level in this campaign will continue that high-level in this campaign. We live talk personally deliver a hundred fifty thousand people. We've distributed over six hundred thousand pieces of literature including pieces on issue discussions my phone and has not done their my wife and I Over 75000 miles on our two cars just emphasizing the hard work the person to person community involvement and closeness to people that will continue as a congressman make the end in the note that all of us participating today share fundamentally a concern for our families are communities in the future of America in 1978 for the second time and some 50 years in the first congressional district. We have a chance to elect a new congressman who can add to our capacity to resolve our problems the many problems that touch her life's daily for proving hard work for concern for people and for positive legislative affecting us for the people Southeastern Minnesota that new Congressman will be Gerry Sikorski what that desperate action my opponent that refers to an S. He's a concerned about some of the calls that came in and certainly they didn't originate from me. I had nothing to do with any calls that came in but I think they reflect a concern of people and we have her. Positive campaign we've stressed issues. I realized over a dozen position papers and distributed. My campaign manager told me you think we've got over 500,000 pieces of various literature that's gone out. We've talked about the issues in numerous meetings throughout the state of Minnesota. I think we see at a fundamental difference. It really has emerged through these series of about the 18-19 meeting and that's her whole concern about. What is the purpose of Taxation in the system. I see taxation as a source by which the government collects the money to deliver the needed services to people I fear that my point of views of Taxation as a means of reallocating a redistributing the money in society. And if this just happened to come with Millions being given back to certain groups before an election so much the better I would just like to close by urging people to listen to the station to take part in the process and election is one week from today. And if you don't vote obviously someone else is making your decision for you and turn out and vote for whichever candidate whichever party or candidate sub Whatever it might be that you think would represent your interest and I think if you take part in the process and participate will be assured that we will have a strong country a strong government. So my final shot will be please turn out and vote independent Republican and Dan. Thank you very much. Terry and guests the candidates from the first congressional district the time now about 27 minutes before 1. This is midday on Minnesota Public Radio and we'll move right along because we are short of time Michael Freeman is the dfl candidate for the 3rd District congressional seat for Freeman is 30 years old. He is a lawyer. He was the son of the former Minnesota governor and secretary of agriculture Orville Freeman the Treeman graduated from Rutgers and University of Minnesota law school. The first issue will tackle is taxes and mr. Freeman. I'd like to put that to you right away. We've heard about the camp Roth proposal about Carmen Fischer proposal for cutting taxes, and I'm just wondering which of the proposals you subscribe to call Dan first. I want to say thanks to you and to ksgn for having me here. It's always a pleasure to have a chance to articulate to large numbers of people and of course the broadcast media does that I supported the Carmen Fischer amendments in substitute in the House of the United States. House that Bill would have emphasized tax relief for people who earn between 10 and $40,000 a year, I emphasize and support that because those are the people that I believe after paying for the necessities of life have the least amount of disposable income money. Did they can invest money that they can save to help the kids go to college money basically to to make the economy go those people about 80% of the population. The taxpayers are paying by far the overwhelming majority of taxes. I think those are the people who need tax relief and I'm sorry to say that the bill friends with my opponent voted against that bill and the Congressional records was quoted as saying that was another income redistribution package me go ahead and I don't feel that middle income tax relief is income redistribution. And so I think that's a fairly clear-cut difference between Bill friends on on that particular issue. So you do not favor Camp Ross the 33% cut in individual income taxes across the board over 3 years. Creative time do you support the idea of cutting federal spending than a few support something like the Corbin Fisher plan? And if you do support cutting federal spending, where would you cut? Well, I think we have to cut some of the federal spending. It's clear that the federal deficit is too large. It's been reduced from over 60 billion dollars a year to praktan the high in the low 40s and this particular fiscal year in the present is pledged to use his best efforts to cut it to about 28 to 30 billion dollars in the next fiscal year substantial Improvement, but there's a good deal of wasting his Management in government. We all know that and I think what I favor is the sunset La approach we reach program needs to come up for re-examination and reauthorization every 5 years. That way a program will have to justify itself and have enough room to vote to continue. I think that there's also some things and zero based budgeting and management by objective will help. There's no particular are the government that I want to focus on as particularly wasteful there is certainly some Where we seen we haven't seen the kind of return we have for our tax dollar but I pledge to look at all the government programs very carefully including defense one too often. I think Congress blindly pass is a defense Appropriations bill without critically examining to ascertain whether we need the kind of program. So talking about Dan. Let me just touch Camp Rock the second. I do not support Camp Rock and will not I really think it's really irresponsible. Basically, it's all pleasure in no pain. I'll cut your taxes but I won't tell you where we have to cut government spending. It seems to me a congressman's got to be responsible to his constituents and to tell where your tax dollars are going to and where they're coming from and I think kamprath as it kind of us is far in the left is Walter Heller and as far as the right is Herbert Steinem said this is inflation. This is madness and I know it was quite interest. Most of the Republicans are backing off of that. In fact real friends was attempting after his praise for it to disassociate himself with it. I Hope that he's effective in that because I think improv could be disastrous for middle-income taxpayers. The subject of taxes is a bottomless pit. Unfortunately, we have to have got along to other issues. Mr. Freeman President. Carter has proposed the hospital Cost Containment build try to put a lid on Rising healthcare costs 9% I think is what he'd like to limit Rising medical expenses to how you feel about that plan. How do you think medical expenses should be kept down while I think Hospital Cost Containment is one area we can do it. I also think certificates of Need for sophisticated medical technology equipment and certificate of needs before we build and create new hospitals are problem in healthcare costs is that it's a third-party pay someone else is always paying the bill to the federal government for its Blue Cross Blue Shield or one of the other areas. I think we have to emphasize hmos Health maintenance organizations and what you pay a flat rate and you receive your medical care because there's an emphasis on Preventive Medical Care there here in the Twin Cities about 20% of the people use hmos and where one of the leaders in the country the hospital Cost Containment bill that passed the Senate but didn't get to the house floor is one that I would have voted for there were some problems with it and perhaps some of the areas were bit restricted, but I think we have to draw the line and caused government cause across-the-board and every are we have to examine try to ascertain where we can reduce spending so that we have the necessary resources to provide for the central government services that we all need friends. When I in a debate about a week ago stated his opposition to such Hospital Cost Containment legislation. I think that's just one of the areas but I think we have to control the rate of inflation and Healthcare cause along with the health. We have been hearing about a national health insurance plan of various sorts for years now in this country and I'd only politicians the public officials in the voting public seems to have a very difficult time coming to grips with what sort of plan wood. Best what is your attitude on National Health Insurance? Do you favor a plan or what do we need to do in that regard? I think we ought to have catastrophic health insurance. Tomorrow could be / Congress should have passed that bill and I strongly favor that that's the sort of situation where you have a very very serious illness a kidney problem open heart surgery where the government will come in to help after your own health insurance is exhausted. I think that's something we should have done right away the extension of comprehensive Healthcare to some 30 million Americans who do not presently receive adequate Healthcare is a question for national health insurance. I'm committed to trying to extend health care to those people my problem under the present situation is but none of the bills that I have seen not the AMA Bill not the Kennedy Bill provide the necessary cost restraints. I think they're essential referring to our previous discussion about the need to reduce the inflation in healthcare costs. I will support a plan to extend health care to those 30 million Americans that do not have adequate Healthcare today. But only if we're can assure it that will control the kind of cost and the inflation that we see today in healthcare costs before we went on the air. We were talking about Aid to education as we leave Health now and go of Education in our little survey of the major issues. Should the government do you think mr. Freeman allow parents to receive tax credits if they send their children to private religious schools. My problem principal problem with tuition tax-credit plans is that the courts have consistently held them is unconstitutional. In fact that the minister the three-judge court that passed on the Minnesota deduction plan clearly articulated the fact that the tuition tax credits are unconstitutional and they made a fairly strong emphasis on that being in favor of tuition tax credits is again kind of all pleasure. No pain you kind of know that the course you're going to say no and you really not being is What's right with people as I think you ought to be I'm in favor of increased Aid to private and parochial school and the public education. I think an investment education is money. Well spent true an education. There is some places where we need some constraints in to ensure that our dial should being well-spent. So my commitment to private and parochial in public education is a strong one, but I'm just convinced the tuition tax-credit bill is unconstitutional and is basically an image or Mirage. It's being promised we're talking about all sorts of issues that have received lots of attention as a result of the most recent session of Congress, including this next issue deregulation of natural gas, which I think is only confusing to me but perhaps most people you are reported as opposing the regulation of natural gas. I'm I'm curious as to why that is and if you do oppose it, what is your alternative suggestion for how we would make it profitable to search for new reserves for the past 30 years. The price of natural gas has been regulated. It's been held below market price. Relation would remove that barrier and let the market decide how much would cost my problem with deregulation to be very honest with you is that there's been an increase in natural gas prices in the last 10 years of 1000% that's hit hardest to the people who Heat their homes with natural gas deregulation with again double home heating costs and it would do that primarily in the impact would be most difficult on seniors people with fixed-income low income people who really can't afford that kind of increase the the supposed justification for deregulation is that would provide additional profits and incentives for the oil companies to find more largest sources of natural gas with the kind of profits. They've had with a kind of money. They recently invested. I'm not convinced that they need that amount of money deregulation over a 20-year period of time perhaps it clean up the mess. It's been in the marketplace, but we don't need it overnighted. Mr. Friends was advocated and we don't Season 7 years as the president has advocated. I am a Democrat but there are times when I disagree with my president the other final reason I'm opposed to deregulation. Is there only so many dollars and you can be spent for energy. We're not spending it on research and development of solar and geothermal in the use of Pete alternative energy sources which we could do if we didn't deregulate and so I think I would put my emphasis on alternative non-polluting sources rather than our continued Reliance on petroleum ones. So do I understand you then to me? Mr. Freeman that you feel that the gas company's the natural gas companies in this country are receiving enough economic return with the present to controlled or regulated price of gas. I think there are adequate profits and capital accumulated to continue exploration of natural gas and oil is country without a major tax break and that's basically what it is cuz I said Dan I think deregulation over a twenty-year period of time so the impact is not so substantial. I would not oppose it would help. Clarify situation. That's that's grown to be a bit out of line. But this immediate or quick deregulation will impact people to too strongly and I'll also provide too much profits into brief. Of time. Let's attack one final issue. Then we'll give you a breather and we can listen to comments from your opponent to Bill frenzel who was in our Studios a couple of weeks ago. We have heard some people say notably people from the Federal Reserve System. That one way to control inflation is to raise interest rates considerably not just a little bit. I do not understand that. Can you explain your understanding of the effect of raising interest rates in whether or not you think that is a good way to reduce inflation all I don't claim to be an economist an aura member the Federal Reserve System, but they understand the theory is you raise interest levels. It's gets more expensive to borrow money there for that will slow the demand and that will reduce inflation. The problem being is it sporadic is unpredictable and what's happened recently when we've increased in Interest rates is demand has not reduced there for the cost of borrowing money has been hired has been more expensive. It has not worked. I think through the way to effectively reduce inflation is to reduce energy consumption for price and wage restraints along the line that the president has suggested to reduce our basic expectation that we're always going to have the better life and an endless better life. We have to realize that in today's world. We are going to make improvements but those improvements or not perhaps going to be as radical as rapid as we've enjoyed previously. And finally we need to cut the excessive federal spending that I was talking about earlier. Mr. Freeman. You're a lawyer and you have been in private practice in Minneapolis. If I'm not mistaken, I'm curious as to what is motivated you to run for public office been active in government and politics all my life. I had the opportunity to be the campaign manager for Carter Mondale and Minnesota 1976. And basically after that election, I reviewed mr. Friends rules record, very carefully. $6,400 roll call votes. I found a very unsatisfactory for some issues. We talked about today in terms of taxes and inflation environmental issues, which we haven't talked about in education. I find I did enjoy Bill friends. Will he's a pleasant man. He's got a nice sense of humor. I have no personal dislike for Bill. And in fact, I'm very pleased that his in my campaign has been one that's been positive. We talked about issues and we talked about the record and that's where I disagree with Bill and that was my motivating factor. I think the final thing was good friends has been in Congress for 8 years. I haven't seen accomplishments. I haven't seen girlfriend's name on important bills and issues the things that I'm concerned about. So I felt that I offered a new alternative and a different perspective and then perhaps I can convince the voters of that. Also. I'm pleased to say that most recent polls show that this one is a horse race and that's why I'm pleased ksgn gave me the opportunity to be here today and that's why I'm going right back to the shopping center to me. Number of people again, very good. And our thanks to Michael Freeman the dfl candidate for the 3rd District congressional seat, and that will conclude our short discussion on the issues many issues heard of hopscotching our way through lots of concerns today in this country 13 minutes now before 1 and the name most frequently mentioned in the preceding conversation was Bill friends old and he joined us in our ksjn Studios a few days ago and for the next 13 minutes or so, we'll hear mr. Friends those positions on the issues of the day. He talked with NPR's Pat Kessler bill frenzel is a member of Congress from Minnesota's 3rd District. It's a district that's been described as a relatively High income area. It's a Suburban Twin Cities district for the most part where voters have frequently split the ticket holders in the Third District have been sending Republicans to Congress since 1960 while voting for Democrats and other races. Mr. Friends always been a member of Congress since 1970 and has been returned by voters ever since by winning. Open 60% of the vote frenzel is a member of the House Ways and Means Committee which rights tax laws. Mr. Friends are welcome this afternoon. Thank you. I'm glad to be here. I'll miss your friends. Will you are reported as favoring a plant. It's better to cut taxes across-the-board by 33% over 3 years, but this plan offered by Representatives camp and Roth has strong strong criticism from Democrats that why do you support this plan over the more moderate proposals for cutting taxes filed because taxes have been escalated because of inflation over the past couple of years and I had a very high rate and the people have had to pay more taxes, even when they've had no increases in real income in my judgment. We have to give tax cuts to protect our taxpayers from inflation and firm increases in Social Security. I don't believe that we can have a 10% tax cut a year for three years unless we couple it with spending cuts. So I had that caveat to my support of of that particular. Tax plan if it's necessary to cut federal spending as a part of reducing taxes at where do you believe that cutting should be done service? I would like to make and whenever we got for instance and defense are in the welfare or in Road building or whatever we stir up for all of the people who are affected by those programs and it becomes impossible for us to carry through the cut. So we've had far more luck this year and making across-the-board Cuts. So I would suggest that we continue to make across-the-board cuts and that means that each department of government has to make some kind of sacrifice as we begin to lower excessive federal spending. For instance. If the president had suggested a budget early this year at the predicted rate of inflation, which was 7% instead of his increase of 11% that 4% saving on a half a trillion dollars. I've been 20 billion dollars last spent and I think that's the way the budget is going to have to be cut in those aggregate amount. We hear the phrase across-the-board tax cuts and the 95th Congress has done attack slashing measure, would you explain what has been going on there with the tax-cutting history of tax cuts 1969 and almost exclusively concentrated the cuts at lower income levels because we thought those kinds of people needed more protection. However this year we made the cuts across the board. That means the cuts are roughly 6% through each income range. So that all taxpayers would be protected. We found it while we protected the lower-income people. We allowed middle-income people to pay the brand of income taxes and to be escalated by inflation in the higher income tax brackets. So this year our policy was generally across-the-board cuts. Would you suggest that the increasing health care costs be contained? I think we're going to have to continue the voluntary health care programs that were established or have been established rather. Well in the Twin Cities area and in Minnesota generally are these have been voluntary programs by which medical institutions and medical practitioners of all kinds attempt to evaluate services and needs and to try to set some standards so that so that certain that types of healthcare are certain providers won't overdo it and and cause extra expenses to be put into the system. If you have mandatory restrictions on prices which president suggested this year. It seems to me that without mandatory restrictions on car that will only result in a lord schedule a benefits hospital. So with Rising costs in a limit on prices will simply after layoff nurses or or provide less. Medical services and I don't think the people of Minnesota want that I certainly don't want it when I'm talking about really was the professional or the the peer-review system that was developed in the Hennepin County Medical Society in expanded through the area here by which Physicians decided that for certain types of medical procedures that you would require only a certain number of days in the hospital and they if there were more the longer stay would have to be justified by the particular circumstances in that particular case so that no one would need to stay in the hospital longer and let the cost could be kept down in that way as a result. Even though got Hospital costs have soared the time span in the hospital for the same kinds of reasons has decreased over the years and so far. I think that's been our best defense against Rising Hospital cost. How about national health insurance do you favorite? Healthcare system has grown up in this country quite differently than it has in other countries of the western industrialized world. I don't think that we are able to pick up in one lump the terrible cost of the so-called Kennedy Carmen plan, which is the principal proposal for national health insurance. I also believe that the proponents want to put it on the social security system. And I I don't feel we have the capability of managing it through the through the Social Security System. We have a lot of difficulty managing that system of by itself. I think of what our people are really nervous about in healthcare is that big medical catastrophe that is even though they have been careful about their own economy. Why are there not going to be able to survive as a medical catastrophe? I believe the federal government should provide for a catastrophe insurance program. So that Americans need not have those nagging Fierce once we do that. I think we will have protected our system pretty well. Obviously, we're going to have to make improvements right along in our in our protection for the poor. We have a Medicaid system that takes care of people who cannot take care of themselves and we have a Medicare system to take care of the special needs of the elderly. If we have a catastrophe plan to lay over that. I think that the our system will be a first-rate one subject. Mr. Friends, Ohio in your opinion should the issue of Federal Aid to education be decided should we allow citizens Briggs ample to receive tax credit if they send their children to private schools in my judgment we should do that, but I think that is quite separate from our financing of public education. I've always felt that although I consider myself a fiscal conservative Nevada public education is one of the few underfunded areas of a federal activity and that if we could get our funding a federal education straightened out we have too many Grant programs to spread. Programs that are no good like the impact aid program if we could put all those and consolidate them into one kind of a grant program based on a per pupil rat traps Modified by economic circumstance or educational advantage and disadvantage, but then we would be in a position to begin funding education at the federal level in a more aggressive way. But I think that is separate. I think we have to take care of a funding public education as a separate matter. Now the matter of giving tuition tax-credit. Yeah, and the non-public schools is a separate question as I see it that funding is not competitive to Public Schools. We do want to find the public schools and have a decent education system. But for those parents who want a choice for their children, the rising costs of Education have almost a limited have an almost eliminated the parents ability to maintain that choice and Particularly in our Central cities were my parents of low economic means have not been able to have the choice to move to the suburbs to the swell school systems. We have their they would like to have the advantage of the choice of the non-public system. I have found that students in the non-public system have declined from a percentage of about 14% to under 10% in the last 10 years. And it seems as our non-public education. The institutions are being phased out. I'd like to see parents have a continuing choice. And therefore I think tuition tax credits is the best way I know to preserve it on the issue of our natural gas deregulation you reported is favoring it. Do you believe that the increasing natural gas prices will encourage exploration and conservation and still allow people on low incomes to afford energy. Well, that's the key no matter what we do energy is going to increase in price and I think it is Well, it's almost silly to say that by keeping the price of energy down. We're going to protect consumers what we're going to do as far as to Consumers to go offshore and buy a Persian Gulf oil, which is the most expensive form of energy, which is what we're doing right now. If we let domestic energy prices, that's the stuff we we digging cell if we let that rise to market. Right? So we'll be able to have our own energy. It will cost us probably no more than what we're paying now to go offshore for energy and that we will not be subject to the unreliability of our offshore suppliers that the plague that's particularly in the 1973 Oil Embargo. So I think deregulation makes a lot of sense. I think we ought to we are to ensure that domestic supplies are increased and I believe that deregulation will do that. The bill that Congress has just passed at the president's request a cause for it too long a period to deregulate we don't get deregulate until 1985. How about I think that I getting there sometime it's better than getting there never. So I did vote for that bill one way to control inflation. The sum of suggested is to raise the interest rates in this country. For example, some say the Federal Reserve board should force the interest rates higher to control inflation. Can you explain your understanding of the suggestion and tell us whether you agree with it? Sure, as a matter of fact for the last 10 years are Federal Reserve board has been forced to keep interest rates relatively High historically and because the Congress hasn't given it any help in fighting inflation. As long as the Congress Laos is fiscal policy by spending a good deal more than it takes in and are huge deficits are creating a raging inflation of the only institution that gives us any protection at all. It's a Federal Reserve board which controls monetary policy. They have a kept through their control of the expansion of the monetary system. They've kept interest rates historically quite High and Has had some effect in holding down inflation, but the Federal Reserve board can't do it by itself. And unless Congress gives it some help we are going to see this continuing inflation anyway, but Federal Reserve board has done. I think a pretty good job of holding interest rates up and trying to be the only restraining influence in our economy against inflation Congressman friends of what parts of your record. Do you feel that you've worked the hardest on an accomplished? Well, when I came to Congress began serving on the house administration committee and began working on Election law and I was one of the co-sponsors of the election law that provided for disclosure of contributions and expenditures and the creation of the federal elections commission. I I still consider that one of the best pieces of work that I have done in the Congress when I was pointed to the Ways and Means Committee. I began to be active in tax legislation and this Play in The Quiet of an important role in generating the Ways and Means Committee bill, which was passed this summer and eventually became the basis of the tax cut bill that the president will probably sign. We expect the president to sign shortly the That bill is the one that provides for Relief across-the-board and departs from the past process of working at one level of income for tax. Cut. It also provide some incentive for investment, which I hope will stimulate the jobs that this economy needs for the future. I think I had a strong hand and helping past that bill. I think I have a good chance to expand on that bill in the future and I and I count that as among the most important to pieces of work I've done in Congress. Thanks very much for your time, He's been friends and I appreciate you coming in. Thank you.