No system is perfect and we accept the fact that our judgments of Transportation safeguards me. Maybe five of them at the same time. We have much more confidence and we had seven months ago when everyone the United States was a pendant of grapes Authority and would say the safeguards are the transportation is the weakest link in the Safeguard system that may have been true but it is also a link which can easily be corrected and we think that as well within our experience and within the technical feasibility of theInstruments and materials we have available to make it the strongest part. I look back on his helmet rail system. I guess Carl Builder Express this philosophy quite literally in a recent Conference of safeguards in Orlando, Florida with some of you may have attended but you didn't just let me read you what Carl had to say. You talkin not specifically about Transportation, but I think it doesn't find a transportation. We can design safeguards. That would be expected to fail only. Under conditions corresponding to large-scale severe civil disorder. and these are conditions that clearly defy regulations are compliance an auger larger danger to our society that our failure would I don't blame special Safeguard. Now. These are safeguards for nothing other than civil disorder call Builders thing and I agree with him wholeheartedly. We're not telling you we can guard against the Civil War but watching something highly at Kendall was Salvador Civil War. We have high confidence. We have sufficient mentality and sufficient technical. resources available to make the Safeguard the land transportation extremely secure probably as secure as any other secured shipment of any kind that's going to be made this country today. That was JB jurist plant protection analyst division of safeguards United States nuclear Regulatory Commission. The NRC is responsible for protecting the public from any dangers related to the civilian use of nuclear materials. There's was addressing a group of nuclear industrialists and government regulatory officials out of conference entitled transportation of nuclear materials held recently in Bloomington. Theirs was a shirring countries that his agency can withstand and repel attacked by saboteurs on nuclear fuel stockpiles. No such attacks I've ever occurred recently. However nuclear plants were placed on Alert in anticipation of reprisals by anti nuclear forces nuclear power has grown to supply about 9% of America's energy with the emergence of nuclear power. There has been a like increase in the transporting of nuclear fuel from government and Richmond stations to power plants spent fuels and waste materials are transported to storage facilities at new Graveyards and within monster fuel recycling centers tons of radioactive uranium and plutonium are shipped daily by barge Rail and truck the meeting of industry and government policymakers distress the legal Regulatory and safety issues surrounding nuclear Transportation. The conference was sponsored by the atomic industrial Forum an International Association of more than 600 Corporate & institutional members dedicated to the development of peaceful uses of nuclear energy. The following are excerpts from speeches and interviews given at the conference Emmanuel Gordon nuclear fuel project manager for the atomic industrial forum and Conference coordinator transportation is really a small part of the fuel cycle and people haven't been paying a great deal of attention to it or its problems. It became apparent not too long ago that it transportation problems continue to increase we have a difficulty in moving all the materials around with a small thing like this could have a very bad effect on the industry. Operations licensing a radioactive Kalkaska County radioactive materials. It takes a while to do it. We having it takes a long time to do it. We having a call while we're having a big problem with the railroads. The railroads are resisting transporting nuclear materials, except under what they call special training conditions. This is an honour as an unnecessary costs in an unnecessary burden to the industry. Now, you can still transport fuel but it's it's quite costly people are concerned with what they transporting a fuel two cities we feel and and we have a 30-year reckon essentially no accidents. No fatal accident that happened the numbers are few and never any anybody hurt that I know of from nuclear and you know, normally any accident from physical damage it is is it just playing? Arkema plant materials no problems whatsoever. But people are resisting again in some areas having this material go through their city. So we have troubles with say what son state legislators and it's just sort of piled up on the transportation area from Farmers from the beginning to the end and saw this this group got together to have this meeting to air out the problems and the Sea Watch agencies of the government doing or where helping to make recommendations to the amount of cars to each other and we have the Department of Defense Department of Transportation rather fond of Transportation. The Environmental Protection Agency is National regulatory agency or national Regulatory Commission had to do research and development Administration. And any other agency that have to be concerned and state agencies that are concerned with transportation in a nutshell the there are various problems which are not technical or technological but their political and legal and Regulatory. And we're trying to get this straightened out. That's the reason for this meeting. That's Gordon mentioned. The NRC is not the only agency concerned with the safety of nuclear material shipments. Another is the energy research and development agency her. Which plays a large role in supervising the uranium from processing plants to power plant Admiral Harvey lion director division of safeguards and security for erda. Why do special nuclear material? and there I am referring to the fissile material that is Highly enriched uranium over 20% uranium 233 which is in limited amounts in the thorium breeder now under final testing prior to criticality in shippingport man potonion how much of a transportation that's going on today? In the private sector does not involve any of those materials most of those materials a large part of it the stage in the game and new career development belong to the government. And therefore we have a proper interest in erda and Safe Transportation of that material. Jay and I talked about the threat. And whether there is one. in this particular area I don't believe we can take sides one way or the other we have to be prepared. For such a threat. several years ago the transportation cargo Security Council Whose members include carrier shippers concert knees insurers and labor stated one of the more serious problems confronting Transportation industry is the theft of cargo. I think that was an understatement in the light of an annual loss rate of over 2 billion dollars. now we haven't lost any nuclear material. Thus far nothing has been hijacked while being transferred and Tate it transported. Nor for that matter, is there any evidence that any attempts to steal such material has been contemplated? But the fact is that there are terrorist groups in the world. There are growing possibilities of a black market. And we who are in the nuclear business and the transportation business must be prepared to handle this car go in a safe and cost-effective manner. I think in Past Times it would be Fair to say that little attention has been given to safeguarding special nuclear material. And perhaps in putting our position and proper context today. We would be beneficial to review the history. early in the nuclear program most of the material will all of them a trail is government on sexually all of it was classified. There were small amounts of it. So the transportation problem took care of itself. It was protected because it was classified. It was handled by the government under contracts to Private Industry in many cases, but escorted. And by government guards because of his classification purpose and its value. and up until recent years there have been no great requirement to go beyond that. I think it's also significant that very few people in those days. Knew what nuclear material was uranium was something that you knew how to spell but not what it did. But Tony am I just been discovered? It was used in weapons. But how it would be used for peaceful uses and not yet been given much thought. however in recent times the result of the shortages fossil fuels the increasing realization that our civilization as we know it is dependent upon cheap energy. And because of the great search that has been going on to find a source of endless energy. Nuclear material has become more prominent in the newspapers. Then talk more in the University's how to use it. What characters are characteristics that has what dangers in their bodies? And part of that. rolls off on the transportation Let's conditions change in our procedures today for handling this valuable material must necessarily be changed to meet today's threats. With a goal that no record of hijacking and no losses. Will be continued as it has in the past. in many instances a form of special nuclear material offers a tracking targets the terrorist groups in another's for theft diversion or sabotage in a variety of scenarios in Jay covered some of those important to realize that most left footed occur in the transportation industry today are aided by an Insider. It's not important. It's not enough to protect against an over threat. You also have to protect against the Insidious individual who is working. Within the transportation industry or the nuclear industry who AIDS and abets. the theft terrorism and hijackings are on the increase. Special nuclear material because of its possible political implications and it's economically value must be a considered a target for both the overt the covert or combination of attacks. common practices As the speakers just ahead of me wanted out and commercial transportation. Do not provide. the type of security necessary to satisfy a high Assurance of safeguard in the environment that exist today and in the more crucial environment that may come about in the future. The reason that transportation is receiving such emphasis is because it is one of the more vulnerable portions of the total system. It must have the same level of safeguards is applied to facilities. You must be designed to prevent misuse of both the transportation and its cargo. necessary now to pay attention to that to do otherwise In view of the growing nuclear industry would be a responsible. Also, it would be irresponsible not to be concerned about the cost effectiveness of such a system. because after all the gold But all of this is an economical advantages of nuclear power in our expanding nuclear industry. The fuel cycle will require large quantities of special nuclear material to be moved from reprocessing site to storage sites. The fuel fuel all my fabrication sites, and then on has completed assemblies. to the reactor site In some instances these facilities may be co-located and that is under study by the nuclear industry. but the requirements for Safe Transportation and the safeguards that are associated with it or not likely to do it way all forms a special nuclear material in a fuel cycle being moved in the transportation Network require some protection. although all or not immediately dangerous to the public They are of high value and possess potential. In the hands of the Terminator series for generating major societal problems a power reactor generates about the three to four hundred kg of plutonium for year of operation. The recovered uranium depleted certainly goes up and our current cycle for enrichment. feedback to conversion where it's converted into uranium oxide comes down combined with the plutonium into a mixed oxide fuel. Go to applying for Fabrication in the fuel elements and back into the reactor. the whole purpose of safeguarding this system Is the keep the fuel safely in the reactor for generating nuclear energy? The problems faced in the design of an integrative safeguards transportation system in our complex. It is a mobile system operating remotely from response horses. Must operate in what is essentially continuous exposure to an unknown random threat, they can choose the time and place of action. The goal of transportation between facility should be to establish a quarter. between the various fixoid facilities that has security equivalent to that at the fix site. In establishing sister such a system. the fix site must be designed and constructed so as to afford the necessary physical protection to the transporter and its cargo during a cargo loading and unloading operation when the transporter security systems are in acting That means a transporter protected designed and protected. Sure safe arrival of the cargo must be protected while it's security is down in the cargos being unloaded. In general the transportation system must be an integrated one drawing its strength from a variety of components. That complement each other to a sure that a theft or diversion can't be carried out short of a significant armed attack. Again, this concerns the combination of physical security. material control considerations of safety personal reliability and of course accounting do now Dubai the radio telephone or by the telephone itself. It must be capable of prompt detection of any attempt to hijack and alerting a response Force about that attempt. Importantly sufficient delay must be imposed by the design on the tackers to allow the necessary time for the response Force to react. As you all know there are a variety of Transportation modes available to be exploited. I understand. There was no representative of the railroad company here. Are is the least honorable? But it has safety considerations and posed by the catastrophic proportions of most air accidents. It doesn't matter how the typically improbable those accidents are. Helicopters are excellent for short high-value law. Wait, wait Hall. Those are used currently in the Department of Defense some cases in erda for moving nuclear weapons. over short distances But they like the ship in the barge and the rail. Have limited application and restricted flexibility. Buck Transportation as evident by its widespread use in the United States afford the highest degree of flexibility and opportunities for cost effective implementation. The total system I will discuss today will be such a system. But we are now working on the development of those same components for a rail system adequate Communications to tie the elements of the system together. To keep the receiver in the shipper informed and of course the interface with the legal law enforcement agencies for a response to an attack the temp. They must be integrated into a balance system. And implementing such a system cost of two or three times over that of a conventional truck with escort is to be expected. However, this is important relative to all the costs involved in that nuclear fuel cycle that I showed you back. Their transportation costs are quite modest. Most probably less than one-half percent of the total cost of the nuclear electric power production. That means to the consumer it will essentially be unnoticed. Technology has been developed to support the implementation of such a system as the amount of space on it for material moving in support of the power reactor fuel cycle make that system necessary and cost-effective to be implemented. As a result of increased terrorism being experienced worldwide. Starting in the early 70s early and 72 commence development of such a system. The system was to be designed to be able to counter the threats of a terrorist group equipped with power tools and other special equipment from penetrating the shipment for a sufficient sufficient. Of time to allow the reaction force to arrive on the scene. additionally special Communications We're to be developed to allow continuous communication capability between the escort vehicles and the transporter as well as the control point. Location of the vehicle was to be available. The response time provided by the security of the trailer was to be such as to allow Security Forces provided by state and local law enforcement agencies as well as the accompanying escorts to arrive on the scene before access to the spatial nuclear material could be attained. Such a system of body and all these features has been developed and tested and is now in use for transporting nuclear material between government owned facilities. Consists of a transporter escort vehicles or reliably continuous available Communication System necessary supporting maintenance facilities, including the shipping and receiving facilities. Expresses both safety of operation as well as security and Nessa Nessa necessitated by the nuclear material cargo it handles. Your parents are the transporter from the outside is no different. from trucks in common use within the industry this transporter has been on the road. Rover year during government on cargo space on nuclear material We had one incident. In which it attracted attention. the proceeding through Indiana on the freeway There was a man fell in behind and come into the following to pull up alongside and take pictures and then drop back followed. It's been more and finally turned off the road. The Courier's got the number of the van and they traced it down and it turned out to be a young man recently discharged from the services who was working at Wright-Patt. Air Force Base in the research and development what he was interested in as a ham radio operator was the configuration of the radio antennas on the cab. You wanted to put a system like that on his van and he thought it was a very excellent design. This van and bodies penetration resistant features imposing the significant time delay on even a sophisticated adversary as mr. Durst talked up and any attempts by him to gain access to the cargo. using food in the use of high explosives the drivers are protected from suddenly surprise attacks and provided with ready communication capability again alarm to the escort vehicles in the central operations control. The transporter in South can be immobilized to thwart attempts to move the trailers with an adversary Towing tractor in case it was stopped. The escort vehicle is designed and equipped to protect the escort guard and the response forces. their presents provides additional deterrence a sure is that a response course is nearby and provides redundancy for the communication capability of The Transporter 2 Central operations control in the necessary backup response forces I'd like to emphasise here the importance of the training the conditioning. And the reliability of both the drivers and the escorts. part of our Government material has been shipped in armored cars for a great deal of time for a long. Of time and and without incident. Those drivers when moving classified nuclear material must be cleared Vallarta for the handling and possessing of restricted data. Was that material? One of the drivers who was that such a clearance working for one of the companies that hold such material. Also moved to money. around the country and one day decided it was a good idea to take some of that money and then I was gone with it. I mention this only because of the importance. being prepared to handle that type of a Have an inside job when you're moving special nuclear material fortunately, he chose money instead of the material for about a year during that time over a million miles of service and experience have been accumulated without incident other than one curiosity. incident that I discussed this accumulated use has successfully demonstrated the practicality of such a system. If a similar system work to be implemented in support of the projected nuclear power industry in 1990. Only 400 to 600 people would be required for its operation. Hardly a Major Impact. I discussed that only because of the Questions that have been raised by the interveners concerning the necessity or the Turning of the country into a police state. This certainly wouldn't happen. And this particular area it was 400 to 600 people for example could be contrasted with the over half a million people who are involved in our normal legal law enforcement agencies throughout the country after his talk lion said the truck travel on Main interstates remaining as inconspicuous as possible routes from point-to-point or not classified decisions on which route to use. However, I made a mediately before departure and I can only speak for her to the routes are determined by a computer program. That has been developed. Which catalogs in a database all of the available routes? Mileages distances advantages and disadvantages for moving cargo such as special nuclear material from one place within the system to another place. And it keeps track of how often those roots are used. What does spatial? events, May have occurred such as Bridges out or roads under repair or incidents that have occurred along the highway. and by arranging an advance the schedule of the shipment we go to the program and it it produces options. For routing and that information then is selected by the central control point for choosing the particular route that it wants to go in order of priority. Lissa prevents, of course advance notice of roots We do work very closely with the legal law enforcement agencies and they are. Mater where is necessary of the movements so that the system works as I discussed the trucks and real cars that line discussed are designed specifically to carry their uranium payload the same sort of security goes into protecting spent fuel some products used in the generating process are considered low-level waste in our truck to Federal burial grounds high-level radioactive waste are commonly diluted with inert material concealed in canisters. These canisters can be stored on federal reservations. They can also be buried in underground vaults. One of the programs being promoted by the government is permanent burial in deep salt deposits. The fissionable material used in a nuclear process can be recycled Allied General nuclear Services owns recycling plants at Barnwell South Carolina and Buffalo New York within months both plants and meat all government requirements in begin receiving shipments of high-level waste from power plants industries of New York is one of several companies who have designed rail caps for transporting high-level waste is stored in recycling plants. Spoke with George Duke and broker nuclear Transportation manager for NL about the cast the cast that the NL has been developing for many years and continues to develop are usually associated with the transportation of high-level radioactive waste. This is specifically spent nuclear fuels and fission products after they've been separated from the fuels themselves. And Alice function is said to design license manufacturer maintain operate spent fuel cast for the transportation of a fuels from the nuclear power plants to the reprocessing plant. This is right. Now are casts are designed to meet all the criteria that are listed in 10 CFR part 71, which is this is a Federal Regulation. And in the design features, we prepare what we call a safety analysis report which covers all the structural the criticality the thermal and shielding characteristics and this is reviewed by NRC in extreme detail. Typically. We just had a cast license to Real cast for a 200000 lb largest one in existence today. It took us just about five years for this process to get approved and But these are the new cast Concepts we think are our ultimate in safety and the cast now or shipping the fuel dry. There's no radioactive water associated with them at all. These casts. The one we're talking about. The large rail cast is weighs 200000 lb about 4.5 metric tons of uranium. Is it a a rectangular shaped object know it's the right cylinder. Actually, the interior is about 45 in in diameter and about 17 feet long and get some dry environment low pressure and actually the fuels spend fuels or in what we call a double containment that is there are two protective barriers to eliminate any of the spilling of radioactivity to the environment in case there were an accident of a severe enough order of magnitude to breach this containment. So there's two barriers for the containment of the material. Well, we have to the other one is one in a stainless steel and then the next ring is about 6 inch of lead. And then the next containment vessel is 2 in of stainless steel. What do you estimated cost to build one of these cast in excessive $2000000? We we feel that. A typical plant that processes perhaps 1500 metric tons of uranium which is the account of the standard reprocessing plant today. I will need probably between 20 and 22 Real cast and perhaps 6 to 10 cast to provide adequate p.m. Put to to reprocess hard to keep the capacity the plan of 1500 metric tons in operations. All right, and then take care of filling them with the materials and disposing of them or do you handle it from building to disposal yourself? Well, it varies from reprocessor to reprocess but I suppose a nail has a long-term contract with Allied General nuclear Services, which has a 1500 metric ton uranium plant repossessing plan in Barnwell, South Carolina. Our function is is I said a moment ago was not a way to design the capital. So they operate them and here in El has a total transportation responsibilities. In this case. We own the castes and they are then essentially part of the fee would course amortize see the equipment. So we operate them by that. I mean we go to the utility and we so to speak supervise the loading of these cast to be sure that they are packaged in compliance to the federal regulations. And then once we're totally convinced that we are in compliance, then we accept the fuels that then given to a common carrier and then they're delivered to the reprocessing plant and where they are then also to receive them to be sure that there have been no malfunctions during transportation and that we're delivering a truly sealed package to the reprocessing plant and then they accept responsibility at that point. The purpose of this conference is to discuss Transporting nuclear materials what kind of problems are involved in rail Transportation? There has been a somewhat of a backlash from the railroad companies about certain areas of Transportation. Have you had any problems in that area? Yes railroads, Northeastern group have declared themselves as non common carriers for this material. They want to They want to become what we call Private carriers are a contract carrier to a private organization. Perhaps licey is our company from with our company. They they feel that they have to have additional Revenue to transport these these cast in our case. So we feel that the safety is it is certainly adequate they are reviewed by NRC and they're totally operate under DOT regulations. So we aren't totally and compliance to all safety features and therefore it's hazardous material. Yes, but it certainly is package or Superior to any other has hazardous material that are now commonly being handled on the railroad since we're being discriminated against them that are packaged is indeed good and it making transport safely and in common Carriage they refuse to do this and that's the reason that we have some cases before the ICC right now. What about your relationship with railroads in our area Midwestern railroad? So you do any business with Burlington Northern for instance. Burlington Northern is has the has accepted our car and they are willing to do business. Yes. They have indicated their willingness to do it. However, they are part of what they call the Western carriers in Western carriers right now as a group. Are trying to require special trains rather than put these casks in regular scheduled Freight Service. So they are a party to the special train. However, they have not refused to handle it the only one special train. Using safety as as their need or their justification for asking for special trains, what kind of rates do they ask for for instance for a box car shipping coal. It must be much more to ship one of these cats. Well, the Tariff is usually on a weight basis. You know, I loaded cast is a little more expensive than they and then attempted cat. But in our case the payload is 200000 pound real Cask only Halls 4 1/2 metric tons are payload is very very small compared to the total. So the empty and full of the loaded is is about the same and we have course no objections to paying that type of care. We do a Bose. However, very strongly the need or their requirement are there proposed requirements for special train. Because we feel that the crutch or the need or the justification that they say they have for safety is not Indeed jobs, northern states power supplies about 60% of the electricity bought in Minnesota and SP has contracted with Allied general for recycling of spent Fuel and iSpy is expected to begin shipping spent fuel via NL industry cast beginning in the late 70s about half of nsb's electricity is powered by three nuclear reactors one at Monticello. And to what the Prairie Island plant near Red Wing the company's way storage space is rapidly filling General Electric owns a fuel used at the Monticello plant. NSB will not have to worry about its disposal. I asked Arthur dienhart NSP vice president for plant construction and Engineering if his company had plans to build a high-level waste reprocessing center. His response was no does NSB handle high-level waste such as plutonium a regular Target of nuclear opponents nor the only plans that do. Need to deal with high-level waste so such as plutonium are the plans which will reprocess to spend fuel. And there are two plants. In the United States, which are designed to do this one near Barnwell, South Carolina and the other near Buffalo, New York. They both are substantially completed but they are not operating because the NRC is still engaged in the licensing review process. There is no high-level waste processing or storage at the operating reactor such as northern states power companies reactors, and I don't see any reason why they ever would need to be a processing plant of that kind located in our region or in most of the regions of the country a few plants of this kinda located. Strategically throughout the country. I could handle the processing of the spent fuel for many years to come other nations, of course our building plans to process pain Fuel and they will handle the needs of reactors. In other parts of the world. The one that does have to be answered and we'll have to be answered by the federal government to order an NRC is the ultimate long-term storage of the wastes that result from the reprocessing operation then to hear the problem is not technology because the waste can be encapsulated in ceramic elements, and they can be stored in a variety of harmless ways. What is happening now is that the federal government is developing a program to examine the question in a very deliberate way and come up with the ultimate Optimum Solution by about the year 1985. Fortunately the waist so we're talking about her small and bought him and this timetable theoretically would be satisfactory. But I'm sure everyone in the industry would hope that it wouldn't take the government that long to come to some kind of conclusion the waste so can be stored in a variety of ways above and below ground. They represent in my view. No unusual problems, then other governments that preceded much more rapidly. The Germans already have underground storage programmes in being and several other countries have programs in different stages of development. What generally Becomes of NSP is ways? How is it handled? Well, leave the low level waste which is really no problem. I'm speaking a voice such as has cartons and filter paper and this kind of thing are shipped to a government supervised toxic waste burial ground in Illinois where all kinds of ways to ship not only nuclear waste but all kinds of waste and there are half a dozen of these in various parts of the country the Tsar spend fuel. Oh well go to one of these to spend fuel processing plants that I discussed earlier and the problem of the waste from that. Fuel processing then becomes won between the processor and the federal government to and his pee is not involved in that to discussion of that decision the conference focused on over 20 specific Transportation issues. However, the final speaker accused conferees of avoiding one of the most critical nuclear Public Information Specialist, Charles yulish said unless the public can be convinced of a safe transfer of nuclear materials nuclear industry growth will be halted. It's the uncomfortable unsettling feeling that somehow you've been through all of this before. I like to read to you in a Fishel memorandum from the commission stamped official. Use only has 30 address sees all the top people in the commission. at this time there is much concerned about the safe shipment of radioactive materials pertinent questions in this regard have been raised by the transportation industry the insurance industry local Regulatory Agencies Congress and the public gold on 450 Pages covering all the Salient points date of September 26th 1962. So it seems to me that Deja Vu strikes again here. We are ladies and gentlemen Talking to Ourselves collecting more and more data and over coffee wondering why the hell the public and the states don't understand why we have a problem. I think the problems are apparent to us. I'm a practitioner on almost a day-to-day basis trying to deal with these problems and I have been since I was with the atomic energy commission and I was the information officer my first year of training exposed me to one of the worst plutonium incidents that ever occurred in the country in New Jersey fortunately. I was on the information officer in all the newspapers in New York were on strike which made it a little easier to deal with And I one of my other responsibilities was to deal with the atomic industrial forum. And they at that time practicing novel variation on shoot the messenger who brings bad news, they decided to hire him because we can shut him up that way so they hired me and I began the public affairs program at which point I began to be the Chicken Little of the nuclear industry saying indeed the sky is falling and it is falling with regard to the shipment of radioactive material. If one wanted to reduce the nuclear power controversy to its Essential Elements, which would be a disservice, but I'll do it anyway and put aside the obsessive concern with safety. You would find the nuclear waste and the transportation of nuclear waste in nuclear materials remains uppermost in the minds of most people. I instead of exposing myself to one of the dangers of nuclear information namely a hernia. I decided not to bring all of the reference material. I was going to show you but I did bring one of the latest bits of public example of this and it is from the Greenfield Recorder in Massachusetts and a group there with the cleverness to call themselves. The AC the Alternative Energy Coalition is opposing the nuclear power plants at to be built in Montague by Northeast Utilities and they have being good systems analysts and being able to game out all levers from levels for me analytical the simulated to actual gaming have undertaken or rather vigorous across-the-board approach to stopping this nuclear plant and nuclear transportation is one of the elements of their thrust indeed they have in all of the villages surrounding the plan succeeded. Inputting on the boards for legislation or warrants as they're called their bands on the shipment of radioactive materials. And this was the hottest issue. They have they have an article with the other printed in the local newspaper there. In which they have gone through all of the records and pulled out what they consider horror stories and have printed them all up. For instance. They say in Pennsylvania 1973 a severe accident and fire involves 6 trailer trucks in one car. One of these trucks was carrying radioactive Cobalt it took 30 minutes for firemen to learn that there was a radioactive material involved in dense fog delayed radiation experts arrival for 2 hours. Tastrophe was narrowly averted the article goes on the best way to protect ourselves from nuclear radiation is to stop the development of nuclear power by Banning the transportation of waste through our towns. This is the way of expressing our opposition to nuclear power as well as taking a step to defend and protect our communities from radioactive danger. So if you think that this kind of lunacy have belonged in the 60s, so you're very much mistaken. If you think that you can remain in meetings like this and discuss The equivalent of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin in terms of the technical response to the Mathers. You're quite mistaken the buck literally does and and it involves many dollars as a component of that buck at your own doorsteps and I can tell you you are doing one of the lousiest jobs that I have ever received in any segment of this business. It must be obvious to us in the way. It is obvious to the opponents of nuclear power that there are many ways to stop nuclear power and one of the ways to do it hard to put up sufficient roadblocks to all those elements of the nuclear fuel cycle upon which a nuclear power plant depends. It seems to me that one of the experimental things that you might do after if and when you can make an equipment to shake loose, even the most modest amount of bucks to inventory information materials. Let's say that you're willing to commit the yearly cost of three armed guards. No matter which I don't think anybody has been terribly concerned with this a line item program cost. So let's just appropriate what it would cost for them and their support for a year. You might be well considered to take the United States and divvy it up or adopt. Let's anrc compliance regions just for purposes of having a man. And within that Region 4 minutes sociation of the nuclear industrial groups that are involved in nuclear power nuclear medicine transportation of radioactive materials and have an information task force among them. Have those Industries in that area appropriate a budget to supply information materials. one of the things that you might consider is to buy or lease a little mobile. Camper mobile home something fairly modest in size rip out the insides and make it a little portable information center and put sample packages of radioactive materials a cutaway of a dummy fuel assembly some slides and large pictures use video tape for Super 8 projectors to show you show films of container testing in the light. And send that unit with a person. Bases Loaded bases throughout the state to achieve several examples through the states. One of them is to meet with public officials both at the working level and at the policy level if necessary conduct a 1-day course from that van with all of the information materials that you need. You need to leave with them. Take the mystery out of the subject help them with procedures. You can do that with police authorities Health authorities and you can even do it. If you want for some legislative aides and others you can go to schools. You can go to County governments. You can go to local police. You can go to hospitals. There's no end to what you can use this kind of information resource for if you treat this as a national problem, you're mistaken. This is a local problem. It is a Grassroots problem. So unless you deal with it in the areas where you live you work and you serve there will be no. Hope of solving it ammunition doesn't do any good unless somebody is there to use it. I think you can probably add to that list many many other examples. I would like to leave you with a thought that those of us who are trying to help you fight the battle. Are Finding Nemo finding it extremely difficult to do so with the lack of support the lack of Interest the fear that many of you have of being confronted by an emotional public audience and certainly by the lack of determination to do as well in terms of Education as you are indeed doing in technical fact with the materials you're responsible for. Thank you. Nuclear Public Information Specialist Charles yulish delivering closing remarks at a conference and titled transportation of nuclear materials held recently in Bloomington. I'm Neal st. Anthony